It's Time to Accept the Hard Truth, Oppo

"For Sweden" (rallybeetle) 05/29/2019 at 11:32 • Filed to: Buick, Subaru, True Facts

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The car you really want is either a Subaru or a Buick.

Picture unrelated.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:39

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Nobody actually wants a buick unless you are 80 or chinese

Arrivederci > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:40

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My Lexus feels like a Buick, does that count?

For Sweden > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 05/29/2019 at 11:40

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Shoppers: Here is everything I want in a car

Me: A Buick would meet all of those requirements

Shoppers: But I don’t want that

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:41

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See also, Cadillac

For Sweden > Arrivederci 05/29/2019 at 11:42

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Yes

KingT- 60% of the time, it works every time > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:43

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Choose your destiny:

Subaru

Or Buick

Captain of the Enterprise > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:43

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I would love a WRX or Outback but I also want reliability. 

Ash78, voting early and often > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:43

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I’ve shopped both Subaru and Buick in the past month and found that they check all the boxes on paper, but seem to miss a lot in the execution. It’s hard to articulate.

I really don’t want to end up buying another VW (the only brand I’ve owned for 25 years) but they seem to be doing a lot right. Better in person than on paper.

HammerheadFistpunch > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:46

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so true.  Regal tour X crossed so many things off my wifes list and she wouldn’t even go sit in one.

HammerheadFistpunch > Captain of the Enterprise 05/29/2019 at 11:46

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remember when subaru’s were considered a reliable brand?  I remember.  Though it may not ever have been true.

B/Xmrrmvr > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:47

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Volvo 2021, 112mph speed limit is actually good.

For Sweden > B/Xmrrmvr 05/29/2019 at 11:48

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Don’t need to drive fast if you don’t try to run to Norway to defend against Nazis.

Arrivederci > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:49

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Then I’m done - I’ve owned a Subaru and now a Buick.

Wacko > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:51

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or you buy a Forester just like M ue ller has.

I have the same car as Mueller, except white, and a base model.

For Sweden > Wacko 05/29/2019 at 11:52

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Do you also have reporters hunt you down after c hurch?

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch 05/29/2019 at 11:52

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Same here. Then I walked up, looked inside, and didn’t even bother going into the dealership to inquire further. Honestly, a tiny bit more effort on the interior and some different wheels, and we’d be talking right now. But not at $40k (+/- with discounts)

nermal > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:52

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Most people here would be best served with a boring CUV, like a Crosstrek or a RAV4.

It’s easy to spice things up a bit if needed by jamming some quality punk music on the radio.

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch 05/29/2019 at 11:53

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I’m starting to think all this Subaru reliability stuff was a myth all along. Like the opposite of “VWs all fall apart by year 5"

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > HammerheadFistpunch 05/29/2019 at 11:53

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Hey the only thing that has ever happened to my Outback is it needed a new engine at 30,000 miles, oh ye ah the Christmas tree of CEL lights, and brakes every 20k and the broken child lock....

Ash78, voting early and often > Captain of the Enterprise 05/29/2019 at 11:53

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7 year bumper to bumper warranty on the Golf Alltrack...it’s tempting.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Ash78, voting early and often 05/29/2019 at 11:54

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I’ve been considering a Golf Sportwagen but want more than 178 HP. 

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:55

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Pictured Russian probe:

HammerheadFistpunch > Ash78, voting early and often 05/29/2019 at 11:56

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I remember though, 5 years is when my VW started falling apart. little things. bad rear hatch latch, center seat mechanism failure, to say nothing of the 2 HPFP’s and 1 completely new fuel system.

I couldn’t have been happier to let VW have it back for the money I got.  Granted if I had to sell it at fair market value, I would have been a lot more hesitant, it was a good car to drive.

camarov6rs > Ash78, voting early and often 05/29/2019 at 11:57

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I have yet to sit in a new regal but from my time in outbacks I can see where you’re coming from. On paper you can get both with about 250 hp AWD and decent cargo capacity while still maintaining decent passenger room and economy.

However sitting in an outback feels cheap in a functional way and unless you truly plan some light off-roading the tall suspension makes driving it ponderous. The Buick’s I’ve sat in have better material feel and design but are still a bit bland to appeal to the older crowd. As well it sounds like Buick played their driving dynamics a little too safe and for this market I feel they should have tested  their turbo engine for 87 octane so when you look at ownership metrics it doesn’t seem overly expensive.

Wacko > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 11:58

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no only oppo members since mine is a CVT and not a manual.

DipodomysDeserti > HammerheadFistpunch 05/29/2019 at 11:59

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I’ve owned Subarus from three different decades , but can’t think of a time when they were considered reliable.

I still miss my 4wd Loyale, though.

gettingoldercarguy > Captain of the Enterprise 05/29/2019 at 12:02

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I’m still trying to figure out what people do t o get Subarus to be so unreliable. I think it’s either improper maintenance or running the recommended -20 weight oil. Maybe thinking that the cvt or any auto box for that matter actually has a lifetime fluid.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 12:02

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No. 

For Sweden > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 05/29/2019 at 12:06

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Me standing strong against the reality that I would enjoy a Buick

gettingoldercarguy > HammerheadFistpunch 05/29/2019 at 12:08

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Couldn’t disagree more.  They're fine if you maintain them and run the right fluids.  Reminds me of Pennzoil in the 70s and 80s.  Oh it's reliable so I don't have to check on anything.  What?  My car can't run on no oil?  Must be Pennzoil's fault.

HammerheadFistpunch > gettingoldercarguy 05/29/2019 at 12:15

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I’ve been doing a lot of research into Subaru CVT’s lately and I can say without any question - they (the CVT’s) are unreliable. Part of it is fluid change, but a BIG part is design. They have terrible thermal management and undersized torque converters. If you use your Subaru like a Subaru you will need to change your fluid every 10-20k to keep the box from failing...and even then it may not be enough. It takes so little for the fluid to reach temps that will damage the transmission. One long hard pull up a hill in the heat with a turbo engine is going to put your temps up into the varshish range. Off-road with it? I t WILL fail.

WilliamsSW > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 12:22

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I’m ok with this. 

wafflesnfalafel > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 05/29/2019 at 12:23

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I wouldn’t mind a Grand National or Wildcat maybe...

DipodomysDeserti > gettingoldercarguy 05/29/2019 at 12:25

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I’ve owned a ‘91 Loyale, ‘08 WRX and ‘11 FXT. The Loyale loved to leak oil and eat CV joints. The WRX started eating its transmission at 60k miles and ate a piston at 80k (changed the oil every 3k with high end Motul oil). The FXT used to do this fun thing where it would blow its intercooler hoses off. The roof rack also warped within the first 1k miles.

Subarus have always been known as cars that burn and leak oil, and their engines have been blowing HGs going on thirty years now. Their turbocharged engines have also been known for having weak pistons and glass gearboxes since the early ‘00s. I still miss my Subies, but no one ever considered them reliable. That’s what Hondas were for.

DipodomysDeserti > nermal 05/29/2019 at 12:27

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And if Good Charlotte happens to come on, you can drive yourself straight into a tree and end your misery.

Kiltedpadre > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 12:30

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You are 100% right.

Actually, if I was seriously looking at new vehicles right now a Tour X and either the Forester or Outback would be on my list to check out.

Ash78, voting early and often > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/29/2019 at 12:30

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“Best axe I’ve ever owned, I only replaced the head twice and the handle once!”

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 05/29/2019 at 12:30

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I’m 33 and white, I want a Regal Tour-X.

Or a GNX.

Or any of the 3800 powered crusiers of the early 2000s.

Or an 08 Lacrosse Super.

Ash78, voting early and often > HammerheadFistpunch 05/29/2019 at 12:31

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My 2001 Passat has about as much wrong with a car that you can have, yet still somehow be totally roadworthy. VW can build a bulletproof powertrain completely surrounded by crap. To be fair, I’ve kept this thing a LOT longer than I normally would have (working from home = no commute). And I’ve also vowed not to throw unnecessary cash into it.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness 05/29/2019 at 12:45

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We don’t get the Tour-X, but do get other goodies that the USA doesn’t.  Honesty, I’d rather ride in a base kia then spend money on any GM product.  Not a fanboi, but they just don’t speak to me other than maybe a Vette.

Chariotoflove > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 12:47

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I still want a Reatta.

So, yes.

camarov6rs > Ash78, voting early and often 05/29/2019 at 12:48

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What if the ATP on the regal was 32-34k? I feel that a lot of the sins of a 40k car can be overlooked at a 10k discount. Now look at the GS model similar discount, sportier driving, more powerful engine, more features, similar measured capacities. The regals can be a good value if you find the right deal.

gettingoldercarguy > HammerheadFistpunch 05/29/2019 at 12:50

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We haven't had problems at about 40k, but changing the fluid frequently is required.  I'm going to install a mega cooler sometime soon.

user314 > Ash78, voting early and often 05/29/2019 at 12:58

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Subaru’s supposed reliability is a prime example of the Mandela Effect!

Captain of the Enterprise > HammerheadFistpunch 05/29/2019 at 12:58

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Yeah I wish they were but everyone I’ve met who had one had a major issue usually needing a new engine and electrical issues or both.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 13:03

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Still love my Envision, though the Verano has fallen out of favor...

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > HammerheadFistpunch 05/29/2019 at 13:05

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My BIL owns 3 Subaru’s (two outbacks and the new full sized) and takes one on the beach on the regular. He says he’ll never own another car because they all suck and “ Subies are so reliable bla bla bla ” . I await the day when his transmission grenades and I’ll just smile and ask him again if he thinks they’re reliable.

HammerheadFistpunch > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 05/29/2019 at 13:08

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My two brothers both had turbo Legacy’s Both sold them after then engines grenaded themselves with just over 100k due to turbo failure.  Fun cars but they just aren’t built to last.  

gettingoldercarguy > DipodomysDeserti 05/29/2019 at 13:10

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I don’t know what to say man, there is so much information not present with your issues it’s hard to say what was causing those. O f the five Subarus I’ve had only my sti swapped rs had problems when my brother trashed it. One thing I’ve noticed is that people don’t flush coolant and use something like water wetter regularly . They complain about head gaskets, which also usually happen on boosted cars without sufficient insulation on the exhaust. If your hose is popping off, you have a bad bead or a bad clamp. Transmission issues are usually from insufficient cooling and fluid changes.

How’d the piston get destroyed? Running thinner than a 40 weight is asking for damage.

It’s like the bearing issues on the ej engines.  Thin oil and a stupid lightweight crank pulley almost always.  Then add a bad tune to it and it's no wonder.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 13:10

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Russia Probe... Probe... Bring back the Ford Probe.

Ash78, voting early and often > user314 05/29/2019 at 13:10

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That, or people just get high and let their dogs fill out the surveys.

Not all Subaru owners, just 63% of them.

M.T. Blake > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 13:18

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Mueller looks like the service manager at a Buick dealer.

Annnnd now you can’t unsee it.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > gettingoldercarguy 05/29/2019 at 13:28

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My car gets all of the manufacture required maintenance on time or sooner and it still turned into a 2-stroke around 25,000 miles. I blame the strait 20w oil and their desire to raise efficiency using under tested engine designs .

gettingoldercarguy > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/29/2019 at 13:43

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20 weight is garbage.

“If the customer is hell bent on following the rules and is worried about problems down the road, stick with the vehicle owner’s manual that (usually) states 5W-20. I would personally use a 5W-30 or 10W-30 for the life of the engine. The SAE 20, in my opinion, was introduced into this application with environment and fuel mileage credits in mind. It surely was not based on the best protection for your new expensive engine’s upper cylinder and valvetrain.” Personal advice from an oil professional.”

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/engine/oiling-considerations-in-a-sea-of-modern-engine-technology/

gettingoldercarguy > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/29/2019 at 13:45

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I run 0w40 in my outback 2.5 and 5w50 in my wrx.  Uoa look stellar

Khalbali > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 05/29/2019 at 13:49

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Hey I want lots of Buicks, I’ve been looking at manual regals and veranos seriously lately as i need a new dd and I want a tourx for the missus, and if I weren’t a brokedick I’d want a new regal  gs or lacrosse avenir (massaging seats!)

dogisbadob > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 13:49

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The Tourx is kinda cool

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > gettingoldercarguy 05/29/2019 at 13:50

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If my car was not under warranty I’d probably be running 10w-30 in the outback. My Mazda uses 5w-20 and doesn’t burn a drop of oil, has 80k on the odo and still gets 35 mgps....

Khalbali > For Sweden 05/29/2019 at 13:50

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I've actually been really looking at manual regals and veranos lately, my wife and I are sharing her car currently but once she gets a job I'm gonna need a new dd and buicks check a lot of boxes for me, I've always liked them.

gettingoldercarguy > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 05/29/2019 at 13:54

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My wife's outback doesn't use any oil and we get 35+mpg (sometimes 38 going to and from Astoria).  That's with a 40 weight oil too.

DipodomysDeserti > gettingoldercarguy 05/29/2019 at 13:56

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My experience with building and maintaining vehicles goes well beyond knowing what kind of oil and coolant to use. None of the issues I had surprised me, as I was already pretty immersed in the Subie enthusiast community.

Head gasket failures have plaugued Subarus since the ‘90s, and wasn’t just reserved to turbo cars. Has to do with the two piece gasket they used and the head design. It’s a very well known issue in the Subie community. I always changed my oil every 3k with high end 0w40 and thankfully never had any issues. A quick Google search returns lots of results. It was most prevalent on the EJ engines made before 2011.

Same deal on the EJ255 pistons. The STI used the EJ257 which has different pistons, and weren’t as likely to crack ring lands. A quick search of “WRX ring land failure” will also return lots of results.

I know the FXT had shitty intercooler clamps. Again, this was Subaru’s poor design quality that caused them to pop off. Mine blew off 1k after leaving the factory.

No idea on why they make glass gear boxes, but they eat themselves all the time.

The current issues mostly have to de al with oil consumption. Probably has something to do with them recommending 20 weight oil. Subies were always known to eat oil, so it’s kind of on you if you’re surprised a Subaru loses oil when it’s being fed 5w20.

I’m currently dailying a forty-seven year-old motorcycle that I built up myself. My wife dailies a modern BMW with 120k+ miles on it that I maintain myself. I also have a ‘66 GMC that I’m in the process of swapping the drivetrain out of. I’m not a yahoo when it comes to vehicles.

Despite all their faults, or maybe because of them, I still miss my Subies.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > gettingoldercarguy 05/29/2019 at 13:59

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My feeling is that there are a percentage of the cars that have the oil burning problem and it is greater than 1-2% but less than 10%. For once It would be very helpful if they would actually release some statistics on this for folks to evaluate. I know many people like you who have outbacks with zero oil burning issues and take their cars to jiffy lube for service.... 

gettingoldercarguy > DipodomysDeserti 05/29/2019 at 14:14

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We found the head gasket stuff to be more of core shift from the casting. When we welded the open decks closed and realigned everything they were fixed. Even then, never truly had a problem with a maintained car tuned  correctly.

The 5 speed was used in a power level it was never meant for. Despite that, they did fi ne if they weren’t abused. The torque shock from rally wannabes was what killed them.

Ring land failure was always user error IMHO. Overdoing it in their car, running substandard gas, insufficient maintenance, a tune on a stock intercooler, abusive driving on a stock intercooler. Could the design be better ? Sure, but it was fine if treated right.

DipodomysDeserti > gettingoldercarguy 05/29/2019 at 14:17

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Fair enough

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Ash78, voting early and often 05/29/2019 at 14:36

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Which engine?

Ash78, voting early and often > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 05/29/2019 at 14:39

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The Audi 2.8 NA. Smooth as silk and not too much to go terribly wrong (unlike the 1.8t...)

nermal > DipodomysDeserti 05/29/2019 at 15:15

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Can’t have that as your entire playlist. Gotta sprinkle in a few Su m   4 1 tracks too.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > Ash78, voting early and often 05/29/2019 at 15:41

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I had the same. Nice torquey engine, when it worked. I’m not sure what exactly killed it (between transmission limp mode and cranking-but-no-start), but the shop wanted more than the car was worth to diagnose it.

Mine had a pretty terrible history (leaked pretty much every fluid), so I’ve sworn off VAG products since then.

Derpwagon > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 05/29/2019 at 15:44

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YES. 

Ash78, voting early and often > Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever 05/29/2019 at 15:46

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I’m pretty sure my center diff (4motion) is nearly dry, but it’s just not worth throwing money at something I only drive locally, about 2k miles/year. It’s really just a backup car for us.

Bills can add up quickly with Audi technology underneath.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 05/29/2019 at 16:09

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Been in a base Kia, would take a beaten down 90s GM over a base Kia anyday.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > HammerheadFistpunch 05/29/2019 at 16:12

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Tell her it's a Subaru, just cover up the badges like Chevy in their fake people ads. Buick/Chevy... What's the difference?

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > gettingoldercarguy 05/29/2019 at 16:16

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What oil  do you run?

gettingoldercarguy > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/29/2019 at 16:32

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Amsoil currently, was using renewable lubricants

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > gettingoldercarguy 05/29/2019 at 16:38

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A higher grade than -20 weight?

gettingoldercarguy > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/29/2019 at 16:45

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Yeah, in the outback we started with a 0w30 but now run the 0w40. On my I started with a 5w40 from Renewable Lubricants then went to the amsoil 5w50 chasing down some low speed pre ignition.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Derpwagon 05/30/2019 at 16:16

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but make it a RWD Miata competitor. It’s the next logical move for Ford. They are taking on the off-road king, the Wrangler. They might as well take on the Miata next.

gettingoldercarguy > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 22:09

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http://fuchs-eu.lubricantadvisor.com/advice.aspx?lang=eng&country=ot&type=b447c655981fe5d5ec82eda5abe1b10a

The severe duty change time is crazy.  45k kilometers.  I'm going to start doing a five quart drain and refill every oil change I think. I change oil every 5k miles

HammerheadFistpunch > gettingoldercarguy 05/30/2019 at 22:44

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50 weight? dang. i run 15/40 in the cruiser and my oil pressure is high... and that’s actually what they spec in other countries for that engine. 50 weight is basically 90 weight gear oil. i don't even run that in my diffs

gettingoldercarguy > HammerheadFistpunch 05/30/2019 at 22:52

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I run 75w110 in diffs, my ISO numbers come back better with every car vs 75w90. Temperatures are lower as well. But on the outback, they say 5w40 is fine which sounds about right. I run 0w40, but there’s no real difference. The big thing from that fuchs site was the fluid change interval on the cvt.  Crazy early for severe service, which just about everybody in the southern States goes through, especially in rush hour.

gettingoldercarguy > HammerheadFistpunch 05/31/2019 at 17:25

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Woops, over ordered a bit.